coops
hydraulic pedals : http://hargettprecision.com/index.php/racing-simulation/racing-pedals.html
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coops
Below is the most recent comparison between the Emery and HPP pedals.........
"We are fairly new to sim racing. we use a full motion Dbox actuator simulator with 3 55" screens, a good rig. we are also real world race car racers and have been racing things for over 40 years. our goal with the sim is to try and replicate, as close as possible the simulation to real world and use the best components for the job!
in our pursuit we have been buying and trying many sim products claiming to be this great and the best and all the other self assessed accolades that are advertised. so we have been buying many products to separate the wheat from the chaff so to speak. we have many new BONE-YARD components to be sure. so far with respect to brakes we didnt bother buying logitech, thrustmaster for obvious reasons, we did buy CST's and massaged them to the point where they did work quite well but they were not cheap and never were they really close to real world race brakes. we then went with the Emery Tilton pedal set, good guy, knows his stuff, makes a good pedal set. our experience based on MOTEC data review showed the hydraulics performed much better, they slowed the race car quicker in the same distance traveled versus the CST pedal and trail braking was much closer in % than the CST's. driver feedback was also very good concerning all aspects of braking and braking technique.
we then learned about the Hargett pedal set and ordered a set to try. we received the 2 pedal array and have since installed them for testing and to compare against the Emery Tilton set. we then asked 4 racers of varying race background to come over and do the test. the candidates were; 1 very experienced sim racer, 1 very experienced sim racer who also races a Swift Formula Atlantic car, a race team race car technician who has only kart raced and is new to sim racing (he has been on our sim quite a bit as well) and myself, I currently race a Pro Mazda and an f1000 race car and have been involved in sim racing for only 8 months.
each guy got 30 minutes, first the Hargett pedals for 5 minutes, then calibrate the Hargett pedals to each drivers preference, test 10 more minutes then a switch to the Emery pedal set, calibrate to your style and test for the balance of 15 minutes. we have data and early review show very similar performance between Emery pedals and Marks pedals. in fact the FA driver commented that there was no difference at all in brake performance but certainly they felt different than the Emery pedals.
first change, all drivers wanted to have a firmer pedal than what the orange compression bushing provided regardless of the amount of pre-load put on the bushing. once the black was installed for one driver, with no pre-load the brake was to his liking, the FA driver seemed to like it at abut 30% of the available pre-load, two of us like it at 50% pre-load. no one enjoyed the pedals at max pre-load, way too hard and that surprised us!
other comments were:
less take up or slack in Hargett pedals than the Emery pedals. Emery pedals have about 1/2" to 5/8" travel or take up before the piston actuates, Hargett pedals have 1/8" - 1/4" take up so the brake, actuates / brakes sooner in the stroke than the Emery pedals. the least experienced of the test drivers had very strong positive comments about the throttle, he said that he felt it was better performance than the Emery pedals. That said, the take up in Emery pedal is inherent to race car pedals because of the severe bouncing your feet go through, they don't want you to hit the brake, unless you want to hit the break regardless of your foot bouncing.
summation:
components: emery pedal set uses a series of AN3 brake lines and brake fittings, a pull cylinder. and T's. a 1600 PSI pressure transducer, throttle potentiometer tilton pedal set quality and willwood mc's mounted to a 3/16" aluminum plate. very good look, authentic, well made, perform as you would expect from a hydraulic brake pedal. softer to harder pedal is accomplished through changing a series of bushings and nylon spacers on the pull cylinder as well as a pre-load adjustment, very wide range so a guy can get very dialed in on the brake feel, it just takes longer because of the wide range.
Hargett pedals accomplish the adjustment and fine tuning in a somewhat more timely fashion. very simple, pick one of the two bushings, place on rod, adjust the nut from just snug (about zero pre-load) to as many turns as the threaded rod will allow (max pre-load) and that's it, once you find the bushing strength you like the fine tuning is very easy and quick to accomplish. it also has a surprisingly wide pedal feel adjustment range but it's not as vast as the emery pedal set.
mark pedals set as you can see from pictures also very well made, very good look, authentic and equally good performance. i think it uses a 1000 PSI pressure transducer, no lines, fittings or t's, robust push rod on the brake and robust clevis. A linear throttle so a few tweaks and differences but the hydraulic principal is the same.
both pedals sets provide the best brake performance to date from the products we have tested, no real performance difference to speak of between them once the brake was actuated. so where is the difference? for me, there is certainly a "feel" difference, I like a hard peddle, so I have them both hard, Hargett pedals have the softer level of hardness though and its not something that I couldn't get used to that's for sure. I hope that makes sense, but there was no brake performance difference. I also enjoyed not having as much take up on getting the brake to actuate with the Hargett pedal set.
the cost, Hargett pedals are less costly than Emery pedals. Hargett pedals have less plumbing and as such less to go wrong. both pedals sets are attractive but you cannot deny (if your a motorsport enthusiasts like we are) that shinny sparkling machined aluminum with the black anodized finish is just damn beautiful. the design / packaging, the thought and engineering packed into a very tidy envelope paired with what we would call high quality precise machining is a dream to look at. they work great, look great, even the box they come in is quality. (I know its just a box but its a nice one).
so to conclude, both hydraulic pedals sets mentioned in this post perform near identical. and they do it very well, if you are seeking a better experience from your current brakes I would strongly encourage you to go to hydraulic brakes (save the next test). both Emery and Hargett pedals can accommodate tight foot box envelopes, both guys, in our experience are stand up guys and deliver exactly what they say you will receive. Emery pedals will give you a wider pedal feel adjustment but it will take time to find and you can get a hard hard hard pedal that will still perform. when I asked all the other test drivers which they would buy, they said "The Hargett pedals". less costly, less parts to go wrong / service. man that was hard to type because I know Emery has worked hard to get to where he has his pedal set currently and he doesn't make a ton of money on them, parts are just expensive and they are real race car components that come with real race car pricing, Mark makes most all his components and he provides as good a performance product at a reduced cost and its equally pleasing to look at! so what does a guy buy, both are good performing components, some will go for the Tilton even with a tad higher pricing because they want the look and the robust nature that goes into design of real race car parts. other's I am sure will look to the Hargett set because of price and the look but whichever you choose, I am confident a switch to a hydraulic pedal will enhance your simulation and race performance.
our next test will be to compare Emery, Hargett and the f1 style ECCI mechanical brake. we have been told that they also offer every bit as good performance as the hydraulic with little to no maintenance and are reportedly the best for a commercial environment. from the pictures we have, they too look fantastic, appear to be well made, robust and can take up to 150 lbs. of leg force. its a good time to be in the sim world, in the last 8 months that I have been exposed to it, I have seen and tested many products and what seems to selling more and more is the better performance products regardless of the price. seem the sim racer is becoming much more discerning in what they want from the simulation. Logitech, Thrustmaster and Fanetec I am sure are paying attention. we will of course post our findings on the forum once we complete the next brake test.
"We are fairly new to sim racing. we use a full motion Dbox actuator simulator with 3 55" screens, a good rig. we are also real world race car racers and have been racing things for over 40 years. our goal with the sim is to try and replicate, as close as possible the simulation to real world and use the best components for the job!
in our pursuit we have been buying and trying many sim products claiming to be this great and the best and all the other self assessed accolades that are advertised. so we have been buying many products to separate the wheat from the chaff so to speak. we have many new BONE-YARD components to be sure. so far with respect to brakes we didnt bother buying logitech, thrustmaster for obvious reasons, we did buy CST's and massaged them to the point where they did work quite well but they were not cheap and never were they really close to real world race brakes. we then went with the Emery Tilton pedal set, good guy, knows his stuff, makes a good pedal set. our experience based on MOTEC data review showed the hydraulics performed much better, they slowed the race car quicker in the same distance traveled versus the CST pedal and trail braking was much closer in % than the CST's. driver feedback was also very good concerning all aspects of braking and braking technique.
we then learned about the Hargett pedal set and ordered a set to try. we received the 2 pedal array and have since installed them for testing and to compare against the Emery Tilton set. we then asked 4 racers of varying race background to come over and do the test. the candidates were; 1 very experienced sim racer, 1 very experienced sim racer who also races a Swift Formula Atlantic car, a race team race car technician who has only kart raced and is new to sim racing (he has been on our sim quite a bit as well) and myself, I currently race a Pro Mazda and an f1000 race car and have been involved in sim racing for only 8 months.
each guy got 30 minutes, first the Hargett pedals for 5 minutes, then calibrate the Hargett pedals to each drivers preference, test 10 more minutes then a switch to the Emery pedal set, calibrate to your style and test for the balance of 15 minutes. we have data and early review show very similar performance between Emery pedals and Marks pedals. in fact the FA driver commented that there was no difference at all in brake performance but certainly they felt different than the Emery pedals.
first change, all drivers wanted to have a firmer pedal than what the orange compression bushing provided regardless of the amount of pre-load put on the bushing. once the black was installed for one driver, with no pre-load the brake was to his liking, the FA driver seemed to like it at abut 30% of the available pre-load, two of us like it at 50% pre-load. no one enjoyed the pedals at max pre-load, way too hard and that surprised us!
other comments were:
less take up or slack in Hargett pedals than the Emery pedals. Emery pedals have about 1/2" to 5/8" travel or take up before the piston actuates, Hargett pedals have 1/8" - 1/4" take up so the brake, actuates / brakes sooner in the stroke than the Emery pedals. the least experienced of the test drivers had very strong positive comments about the throttle, he said that he felt it was better performance than the Emery pedals. That said, the take up in Emery pedal is inherent to race car pedals because of the severe bouncing your feet go through, they don't want you to hit the brake, unless you want to hit the break regardless of your foot bouncing.
summation:
components: emery pedal set uses a series of AN3 brake lines and brake fittings, a pull cylinder. and T's. a 1600 PSI pressure transducer, throttle potentiometer tilton pedal set quality and willwood mc's mounted to a 3/16" aluminum plate. very good look, authentic, well made, perform as you would expect from a hydraulic brake pedal. softer to harder pedal is accomplished through changing a series of bushings and nylon spacers on the pull cylinder as well as a pre-load adjustment, very wide range so a guy can get very dialed in on the brake feel, it just takes longer because of the wide range.
Hargett pedals accomplish the adjustment and fine tuning in a somewhat more timely fashion. very simple, pick one of the two bushings, place on rod, adjust the nut from just snug (about zero pre-load) to as many turns as the threaded rod will allow (max pre-load) and that's it, once you find the bushing strength you like the fine tuning is very easy and quick to accomplish. it also has a surprisingly wide pedal feel adjustment range but it's not as vast as the emery pedal set.
mark pedals set as you can see from pictures also very well made, very good look, authentic and equally good performance. i think it uses a 1000 PSI pressure transducer, no lines, fittings or t's, robust push rod on the brake and robust clevis. A linear throttle so a few tweaks and differences but the hydraulic principal is the same.
both pedals sets provide the best brake performance to date from the products we have tested, no real performance difference to speak of between them once the brake was actuated. so where is the difference? for me, there is certainly a "feel" difference, I like a hard peddle, so I have them both hard, Hargett pedals have the softer level of hardness though and its not something that I couldn't get used to that's for sure. I hope that makes sense, but there was no brake performance difference. I also enjoyed not having as much take up on getting the brake to actuate with the Hargett pedal set.
the cost, Hargett pedals are less costly than Emery pedals. Hargett pedals have less plumbing and as such less to go wrong. both pedals sets are attractive but you cannot deny (if your a motorsport enthusiasts like we are) that shinny sparkling machined aluminum with the black anodized finish is just damn beautiful. the design / packaging, the thought and engineering packed into a very tidy envelope paired with what we would call high quality precise machining is a dream to look at. they work great, look great, even the box they come in is quality. (I know its just a box but its a nice one).
so to conclude, both hydraulic pedals sets mentioned in this post perform near identical. and they do it very well, if you are seeking a better experience from your current brakes I would strongly encourage you to go to hydraulic brakes (save the next test). both Emery and Hargett pedals can accommodate tight foot box envelopes, both guys, in our experience are stand up guys and deliver exactly what they say you will receive. Emery pedals will give you a wider pedal feel adjustment but it will take time to find and you can get a hard hard hard pedal that will still perform. when I asked all the other test drivers which they would buy, they said "The Hargett pedals". less costly, less parts to go wrong / service. man that was hard to type because I know Emery has worked hard to get to where he has his pedal set currently and he doesn't make a ton of money on them, parts are just expensive and they are real race car components that come with real race car pricing, Mark makes most all his components and he provides as good a performance product at a reduced cost and its equally pleasing to look at! so what does a guy buy, both are good performing components, some will go for the Tilton even with a tad higher pricing because they want the look and the robust nature that goes into design of real race car parts. other's I am sure will look to the Hargett set because of price and the look but whichever you choose, I am confident a switch to a hydraulic pedal will enhance your simulation and race performance.
our next test will be to compare Emery, Hargett and the f1 style ECCI mechanical brake. we have been told that they also offer every bit as good performance as the hydraulic with little to no maintenance and are reportedly the best for a commercial environment. from the pictures we have, they too look fantastic, appear to be well made, robust and can take up to 150 lbs. of leg force. its a good time to be in the sim world, in the last 8 months that I have been exposed to it, I have seen and tested many products and what seems to selling more and more is the better performance products regardless of the price. seem the sim racer is becoming much more discerning in what they want from the simulation. Logitech, Thrustmaster and Fanetec I am sure are paying attention. we will of course post our findings on the forum once we complete the next brake test.
coops
@links123 great just waiting on mine to be finished being built, also hargett don't take your $$ till product is built and ready to send. I do believe from what i have seen and read i will get a top quality product. upgrading from csp v1.
Jamie Shorting
I've heard only good things about his pedals.
coops
These pedals are exceptional when it comes to build and quality, as for feel nothing else i have used matches HPP pedals hydraulics it is the only way to go if you want a brake pedal that feels like the real thing. The investment was worth every cent. under $1000 AUD including the USA high postage of $195, braking is so much better, the accelerator is so smooth and no drivers needed just plug and play. They come ready to use just add brake fluid. adjusting of the brakes can be done by hand or spanner easy as. you can calibrate the pedals using game controllers.
so if looking for a set of pedals including a hydraulic brake look no further than HPP PEDALS. http://hargettprecision.com/index.ph...ng-pedals.html
DELIVERY = 5 DAYS TO AUSTRALIA
IMHO rating of brakes: 1: hydraulic, 2: load cell, 3: spring
so if looking for a set of pedals including a hydraulic brake look no further than HPP PEDALS. http://hargettprecision.com/index.ph...ng-pedals.html
DELIVERY = 5 DAYS TO AUSTRALIA
IMHO rating of brakes: 1: hydraulic, 2: load cell, 3: spring
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