G25 paddle shifters work without clutch input :(

TBolt

Hi all. I googled this & did not find anything really helpful.

(Logitech G25 gear)

Even though I have Auto Clutch set to OFF, I noticed that I do not have to press the clutch when shifting with the on-wheel paddle shifters. Is there somewhere else I can go to make sure I can never shift without pressing the clutch? I was thinking maybe I can edit one of the game's system files.

Thank you & happy new year!
 
There is no real difference between using the clutch and not using it even with auto clutch disabled. This is a flaw in ISI based sims. It's been discussed in this and other forums quite a lot but I haven't read about any plans for ISI to improve the system. It is a huge, glaring omission by ISI.
 
Well Guy, there is one huge noticeable difference between auto clutch and normal clutch. If you have normal clutch set and try to change into gear while at idle, or spin on track causing your wheels to stop without taking it out of gear, your engine will die. With auto clutch your engine will continue to run because the game will push in the clutch to prevent this.

With hardware you could make a clutch system that prevented a shift by connecting the clutch pedal to the shifters. Making the power to the shift buttons go through the clutch pedal only when the pedal is pushed would prevent shifting when it is not pushed, but this would require some serious modding.
 
Yes, and that's the only difference. But if I hop in a car with auto clutch and manual clutch, there's a lot more differences I'll notice than that. Try to shift a normal stick shift with a manual clutch without using the clutch- up or down and with or without matched revs. Ain't gonna happen. There is a software solution to the clutch problem, other sims have figured it out already. Just because ti is going to be difficult doesn't mean ISI shouldn't do it or has an excuse to pass off this poor clutch system to a new generation of sims.

New generation sim- time to fix the clutch.
 
I have to agree ... it's a good time to fix this. I was disappointed to find that I could shift without the clutch.

For realism's sake, this ought to be a priority before final release.

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2
 
Guy Moulton said:
Try to shift a normal stick shift with a manual clutch without using the clutch- up or down and with or without matched revs. Ain't gonna happen.
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Try to change gear with paddles in a normal stick shift with manual clutch car. Ain't gonna happen. Cars that have paddle shift have automatic clutch.
That being said, I agree ISI should fix this issue (just not for paddle shifts).
 
Abriel Nei said:
Cars that have paddle shift have automatic clutch.
That being said, I agree ISI should fix this issue (just not for paddle shifts).
Click to expand...

Did not know that. Thanks.



Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2
 
With a software implementation, would there be an option to set the bite position for the clutch release? If you are going for realism, then you would need to be able to set where the clutch starts to bite so you can get a consistent launch.

As for shifting a manual transmission in real life without a clutch, I do it all the time, you just need to match revs is all, simple stuff. I can shift a car, truck or semi-tractor without a clutch all day long.
 
The point where the clutch bites is already coded in and a known quantity. That's not the issue. Yes, I know you can shift without the clutch, I'm talking at ANY revs you can do it with the clutch as it is- and in a real car that is not possible. Maybe with a big truck you can, but not a racing engine. The revs have to be matched. Plus road cars have synchro gear which race cars do not have.
 
Speed determines what RPM range you need to run in order to make a gear change without the clutch. What is required regardless of engine RPM is that the input shaft and the gear attached to it and the output shaft and the gear attached to it are running at the same speed when you attempt to put the car back into gear. Modern race cars are actually using syncronized transmissions now though they are designed a little different than their street counterpart.

The only real difference between street cars and race cars when it comes to shifting without a clutch is that the engine will change RPM faster in a race car so care needs to be taken and shifts need to be more accurate and precise in order to make the change.

I am not arguing the point that there isn't a flaw in the way it is currently done in pretty much any "Sim" or game, I am just stating facts about what is possible in real life. I was taught when I was learning to drive how to shift a car without a clutch so that if I lost my clutch I would be able to get the car back home without needing a tow truck to accomplish this. A money saving technique for the most part. later it translated into how I drive semi tractors and is actually the preferred way to drive them as using the clutch is time consuming and having to drop gears when climbing hills requires fast precise shifts in order to not miss them. Missing shifts in a semi when climbing hills btw usually means starting all over in first gear and having to stay there the rest of the way up the hill. Very slow travel at that point. :)

If hardware manufacturers were to implement the clutch option to where the activation of the clutch was required in order for the shifters to work, it would be a cleaner solution, but hardware manufacturers decided a long time ago that the clutch is just another pedal and not even required or supported in some sims.
 
The only real difference is that a racing car is shifting on the edge of adhesion, it wants to get away from you and requires precision, and has no synchros- at least not in the cars I drive in rF2 right now. A road car is lazily going along, stops and is no where near the edge.

Carroll Smith:
"When you miss an upshift by a little bit, the dogs grind and you go into gear [another thing that is lacking in rF2- when this happens, the gearbox should be a little closer to blowing up]. When you miss is by a bunch the box refuses to go into gear, you hurt the dogs a lot and you lose time. When you fail to synch the revs for a downshift [note he says fail to synch revs- not speed] and go into gear the rear tires will either drag or momentarily accelerate [this does happen in rF2]. If you really screw up the downshift the box won't go into gear and you approach the corner in neutral while frantically searching for a gear [rF2 will always go into gear]."
 
This is a racing sim and as such should be as realistic as possible. This is doubly true as ISI is making rFactor 2 into an historical sim as much as a modern one. We are petitioning to ISI to include a third clutch option- Auto, Manual and Real. Keep Auto and Manual as they are presently. Real enforces the need to engage the clutch or match revs with every shift. We are petitioning for bad shifts are penalized by not allowing the car to shift, grinding (and thus damaging) the gears or locking up/accelerating the rear wheels. We are petitioning for the clutch option of Real to be as realistic as possible and for it to be an option for a dedicated server.
Click to expand...

Sign the petition for ISI to make it happen
 
Gearjammer said:
. What is required regardless of engine RPM is that the input shaft and the gear attached to it and the output shaft and the gear attached to it are running at the same speed when you attempt to put the car back into gear. Modern race cars are actually using syncronized transmissions now though they are designed a little different than their street counterpart.
Click to expand...

mmm synchros..... what would the world do without them. I wonder if 'average joe' knows what help they get when they shift a manual. Before synchros the alternative to no clutch was to 'double de-clutch' (or 'double clutch'). I love how a gearbox will work with zero or two clutch presses but needs synchros to do it with one. :)
 
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