Cheat protection

kypo

Hi.
I'm rFactor League admin and I need advice for some software to protect against cheating in rFactor.
I tried rf_scan, rf_totalcontrol for example, but it did not work 100%.
Thanx
 
It sounds interesting why rF_Scan doesn't work 100% in your opinion. Any known cases, willingly also via pm?!
 
Best way to avoid cheat in rf (1 or 2) is to buy a rifle.....rf_scan is usefull to catch kids but anyone with some skills easily avoid detection.
Cheat in sims is something people tend to hide behind the carpet. Even developers seems to ignore all the issue. In sims people tend to trust each other, and by years of experience, the cheaters come from where you least expect.
Buy a rifle man...
 
rF_Scan just builds a CSV file which lists a bunch of physics values with a timestamps on each record. You then have to look through this data with the naked eye and hope you spot something that changed that shouldn't have. The problem is some of these values are always changing, so you have to look to make sure they aren't changing too much or too little or too fast or too slow. For example the fuel level is going to drop on each lap. But you have to make sure it isn't dropping more slowly than it should. But if you have a file with 60 records per second, it isn't a simple task to go through all this data and actually spot something that isn't right. So if you have a driver that is already fast, they don't have to wildly change values to get that last little bit to win. So spotting that with rF_Scan is tricky.

It's amazing that people cheat, but it does happen, even in leagues. But there are a lot of drivers that really are fast and get accused of cheating when they may not be.
 
I know this tool quite good Noel. Ok, your are right it is sometimes not easy to read all the data. If you are able or not to detect cheating out of the data is not the point. Are there cheats who cannot be captured by the tool? That is my question ;)
 
Valter Cardoso said:
Best way to avoid cheat in rf (1 or 2) is to buy a rifle.....
Click to expand...

rf2 as well??

Man that is disappointing. I don't know anything on the subject but had good hope rf2 and getmod etc would put some stop to it.
oh and pls don't list what peeps can do, I don't even want to know :-(
 
Sebastian Röhn said:
I know this tool quite good Noel. Ok, your are right it is sometimes not easy to read all the data. If you are able or not to detect cheating out of the data is not the point. Are there cheats who cannot be captured by the tool? That is my question ;)
Click to expand...

Its not a question if there´s cheats. Its everyting about values. RF_Scan as stated just reads a bunch of diferent values along the session. If a guy starts with 100% grip and ends with 100% grip of course you will know that he is not flying and something´s happening. Same for fuel and all other values. But if a guy spends less 0.2L a lap than anybody else how can you possibly know if its from some irregular change or just a better setup?
RF_Scan is all about write/read, anyone experienced on cheating will cheat and will whistle to the wind.
You can catch that kid who starts to speed his car to 300km/h when others are on 200Km/h, but you cant catch that pro guy which just needs 1 more back wing click.....

Im not saying bad things about rf_scan, thats the best option we have, but its not 100% reliable since a cheater its allways a cheater, and believe me, they know allways how to bypass it.
 
Data are one thing...but there is another. You need a software which makes manipulating the data possible. That software will definitely left behind some traces at the RAM. But the RAM is that part who is always under investigation by rF_Scan.

I would not say that rF_Scan is 100% secure...you are right, there are always ways. But as long as you don't know a case where it is definitely proved that this cheat can not be detected by rF_Scan, I would rather make not such statements like done here. Maybe you know a case...but is it really 100% sure, that is was only not detected because the investigator doesn't know how to use all information of the data? I hope you see the difference ;)
 
Sebastian Röhn said:
Data are one thing...but there is another. You need a software which makes manipulating the data possible. That software will definitely left behind some traces at the RAM. But the RAM is that part who is always under investigation by rF_Scan.

I would not say that rF_Scan is 100% secure...you are right, there are always ways. But as long as you don't know a case where it is definitely proved that this cheat can not be detected by rF_Scan, I would rather make not such statements like done here. Maybe you know a case...but is it really 100% sure, that is was only not detected because the investigator doesn't know how to use all information of the data? I hope you see the difference ;)
Click to expand...

I understand what you are saying. But a better cheat solution should come directly from ISI in the forum of ASLR or something like that. I understand rF_Scan will theoretically "log" all data, even if it's been tampered with. But if people can't spot the cheats within the data then it is basically useless. It's like finding a needle in a haystack. Someone could cheat for just 10 secs and win a race because of that. Say it is a 12 hour race, are you really going to spot the 10 secs that they cheated? It just isn't practical. I don't think anyone in this thread is saying that the tool doesn't technically work but that is doesn't work realistically.

If someone had a tool that read the data and read the physics files to know what the values should be and could scan the whole log and return a report, that would be better. But even then, people could still cheat if they stayed within reason.
 
On rF1 it's possible to make the track don't have any bump without any mismatch online.
Some very high rated simracers use it.
Also there is all M.Cardoso said.

You can't be 100% sure.
 
Sebastian Röhn said:
Data are one thing...but there is another. You need a software which makes manipulating the data possible. That software will definitely left behind some traces at the RAM. But the RAM is that part who is always under investigation by rF_Scan.

I would not say that rF_Scan is 100% secure...you are right, there are always ways. But as long as you don't know a case where it is definitely proved that this cheat can not be detected by rF_Scan, I would rather make not such statements like done here. Maybe you know a case...but is it really 100% sure, that is was only not detected because the investigator doesn't know how to use all information of the data? I hope you see the difference ;)
Click to expand...

So, we reach the conclusion i´ve posted......"better not talk about it and clean it behind the carpet".
Look, i could explain here how to bypass rf_scan readings (tho i think its the worst thing we could do). Im sure anyone with some knowledge knows thats not something so hard. I just say this not cause i catch anyone but cause i used it on our league and quicly understand that cheaters are cheaters and rf_scan is way too far from a secure way of catching them.
All leagues using it are on their right, but believe me, its not that hard to bypass rf_scan and to be undercover. There are hundreds of values which people doesnt know about. Cheat is not only on having the top speed. The temps, the tire consumption, even the **** (will not post cause of logical reasons) can be applied by small seconds. Changing a process name is not that hard and when you´re reading the log you will se that Mr.Anthony is using a Bluetooth software and not a cheat one.

I agree with Noel. This should be something to be looked by devs. And it should be on top priority.
Ive made my contribution on a thread focused on league owners some months ago and this was my first or second "TO DO" thing. Was hoping that thread had diferent look by ISI and that it wasnt buried like it is.
 
Noel Hibbard said:
If someone had a tool that read the data and read the physics files to know what the values should be and could scan the whole log and return a report, that would be better.
Click to expand...

There is tool like this to rFactor1, I have raced many rFactor1 leagues where it was used.
 
There is an effective anti-cheat but only used in few competitions. Examined in real time and the reports are available also in real time in a web with private access to administrators. Detected use of wheel, keyboard, etc.. I remember that controlled more than 600 different car settings, circuits, weather and possible truncated files. In my last league was used.

rf_scan is good and can be sufficient. I don't know if it controls circuits and weather data and all new values from latest plugins and tools.

There are some based on telemetry but are not effective and require a lot of analysis time by the administrator.
 
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