Assetto Corsa Respectful Comparison

What is the number one feedback we get in a real car? Gforces. This is missing from sims so clearly it will be harder. Not sure why this concept is so hard to grasp. If a sim is as easy as driving a real car then something is clearly fudged.

BTW, Tom Cruse has a good bit of track time. He isn't a total newbie they just threw in a car.
 
Well, after runnning every car, I can say two things:

1) There has to be some sort of driving aid still on even when they are all apparently off. The purposely dulled throttle response and the "hand of God" that keeps the car straight even when it shouldn't be straight smack of driving and traction aids that would be perfectly fine for a beginner (or console game) setting.

2) If I am wrong about #1, then AC is so far off a realistic sim that we really don't need to do direct comparisons with rF2. They would not be in the same category at all.

I'm happy to give it more time, but the current release is shocking in how immature it is versus the hype and rhetoric from Kunos.

rF2 has been more than frustrating in many ways since its release, but from day 1 the strength of the basic physics and FFB was always evident. It's the only reason anyone would put up with the slow and disorganized development quite frankly. AC is much more polished on its release (though it was supposed to be a final, not the beginning of an extended beta period) in every way except the ones that matter most--physics and FFB. In that regard, it is identical to pCARS. Afraid we'll have to wait quite a while to see if either of them catches up to rF2.
 
Noel Hibbard said:
BTW, Tom Cruse has a good bit of track time. He isn't a total newbie they just threw in a car.
Click to expand...

And if ever there were a car that's going to be easy to drive at 80% it would be a modern F1. Even professional drivers take a long time to find the actual limit when going to F1, unless they've come from something similar.

As for guys like Patrick Dempsey or Paul Newman, they worked their asses off to achieve what they've done. Want to see something more representative, watch the Celebrity Pro race at Long Beach each year.

But no, hard does not equal realistic, nor does easy. Unfortunately realism and accuracy require a more thorough analysis than that.
 
Marc Collins said:
Well, after runnning every car, I can say two things:

1) There has to be some sort of driving aid still on even when they are all apparently off. The purposely dulled throttle response and the "hand of God" that keeps the car straight even when it shouldn't be straight smack of driving and traction aids that would be perfectly fine for a beginner (or console game) setting.
Click to expand...

I was told that in AC, dispite of choosing pro settings, it has real life driving aids on. You have to manually disable TC or ABS with some cars (by ctrl+A (ABS) or ctrl+T (TC).

Haven't tried it yet but it was confirmed here.

One thing I forgot from my first impressions: Shifting animations are really nice and I would like to see them also in rf2 but AC has to do something to the ridigilous input lag in shifting animation. Not sure if there were also input lag in steering but it didn't bother me if there was.
 
Well surprise me. Another sim gets released, another argument about which one is more realistic ensues. Videos at the ready.
 
Tested here :

3 way SLI supported with 99% GPU utilization @ 50 FPS with 5960*1080, I had to play with the same settings as rF2 to get nice playability.
No side screen flickering in 3 screens setup
The mirors are working by default with the correct angle (we saw our back in triplescreen setup)
The Force Feedback is a bit less good than rf2 BUT I think we feel the grip/loss of a little more ...
Cars Interior and sounds are nice

I wonder how it will feel with 20 opponents !!! The 50 FPS will probably go down 30, which will be unplayable ...

For the moment it's far to be at rf2 level !!!
 
Esteve Rueda said:
That's the point, is exactly one of things I feel with AC... It's feels "right", but is too easy to drive so fast and match real fastest times (Kunos said that you had to push as hell and learn the car and track to achieve It, real times I mean... and find the limitis of the car).

In almos every other sim (GSC, iR, rF, rF2...) you have to LEARN to drive in the limit, race high spec cars of these sims have tons of grip, and cornering and laterall G force supported are the same as in real life, but you have to drive in the correct way (as in real life) to find that grip balancing the car correctly. In these sims you have to work hard to find this grip, and when you finally find It, you can push as a maniac for example with rF2 GTR, Corvette, or even Marussia and F ISI. Even in Skip Barber you have to learn It. If you do not learn to drive the car fast, It will kick your ass, as you can see when rookies test some high spec cars in track days, or Skip Barber schools... or you can also see how them do not push to avoid that scare moments. In rF2 and the rest of sims (not AC), you can push as a maniac from begining with no care because you have no fear to have an accident, and being a rookie you will spin so easily and the if you do not like that you will say It's unrealistic and ice like, when I actually can do weird things (and every experiece simdriver, like every EXPERIENCED real driver) with almost any car, in rF, rF2, iRacing...

In AC you do not have to do all these things, you push the throttle, the cars reacts naturally with any practice, and... THE BEST SIM EVER! Are AC and Kunos just laughing about all the rest of simulators? because they are going in a totally different way? all other sims (GSC, iR, rF, and rF2) are working hard to achieve better and better car reaction, and more accurate and It's for nothing? All other sims have the same "style" despite everyone having his own particular stuff, but AC is totally different, way more easy, way more hard to break grip and way more easy to go at limit with any need to balance the car in limit conditions, just push hard brake and gas pedals...

I'm still thinking It's not the right way to accurate car simulation. Simple videos can show how their cars are not reacting as supposed, just visually you can see that, even more when you try It... this sounds bad, but seems like now "rookie" drivers that before in other seems could not do 5 consecutive laps are now so happy with AC, and drivers who knows how are every other sim and what do you have to learn to drive fast a car feels AC like I'm feeling It, an easy but credible driving style with no more deep.

PD: I'm drivng PC sims since begining 2010, and I have no difficult to drive ANY car in ANY sim, talking about iR, rF, rF2... and for those who said that in RL have no lots of accidents... in my league we are running a Camaro championship, 80 mins races, and last race started 24 cars and finished 23, if people crash is because they are in a sim and they drive with no care as they would do in real life, in real life every driver has to finish a race with the entire car, money, safety, just respect to other drivers... all this is what sometimes every simdriver loses when a race begins.
Click to expand...

AC has different cars which handle very different. You seem to only be talking about the Abarth which I agree seems to easy to drive, but the other cars feel spot on. There is no way possible you can say the Ferrari is easy to drive, when its all over the place and requires a lot of skill and car control to be fast. The gt2 should have a lot of grip and be easy to drive unless you are on the limit. Why should it be lose control easily? It has slicks and lots of down force. My street car is very hard to lose grip on dry road, let alone a GT2.

rf2 feels like ice in comparison.
 
peterchen said:
Yeah, pure magic that the car isn´t spinning and going out of control when this "race-driver"
runs over curbs, grass and even that rumble-barks at full speed! LOL!

I was really interested in it and should have tried AC one day, but THAT Vid
told me finally that this arcade-thing is nothing for me!
Can´t stop laughing! In a street car! - THIS! LOL! in a BMW M3 from the 80´s! Haha!
:rolleyes:

P.s.: AC hype will vanish away much faster as it begun...
Click to expand...

Have you considered the idea that in real life you can actually bang curbs and run over grass without instantly going into a spin because those surfaces still have a lot of grip, and a real car is very stable and hard to spin??
 
Matt Sentell said:
...
In particular look at how he takes the final chicane at the top of the hill, around the 1:25 mark. He's all the way up to the inner edge of the curbing and it barely upsets the car at all. In AC if you even go across the outer edge of those curbs with the default wheel rates you'll be bouncing like mad. And even with the minimum wheel rates it gets quite a bit more upset than in Costa's video.

Of course someone will scream, "but it's a Beta!" And yes, it is, but they have the data and telemetry, right? :)

Things aren't so simple.
Click to expand...

I'm getting a little confused...you agreed with Rueda that since day one is telling us how impossible is to upset the Fabarth but then you're also saying how easy is?

Did you noticed the wild corrections Costa made on Variante alta exit (1:28)?

Maybe the rear of his "bad simulated" FAbarth is bouncing all the way out of the curb?
 
Matt Sentell said:
Spent a bunch of time with it, various cars, changing setups, etc. There's a lot to like but at the end of the day you can't "dance" with the car, which is what Esteve is really on about. What's strange is that the cars drift so well but you can't dance with them. For those who don't know, the term refers to the balancing act of trying to keep the front and rear slip angles relatively the same at all times. That's what you see Nicolas Costa doing in those F Abarth videos. It's what makes driving a car at the limit so much fun, but a great many track day drivers have never actually experienced it even though they think they know what race driving is about. You have to be near the limit to dance. There's a reason that Nic Costa's laps look like that while almost every other F Abarth onboard I've watched looks more like AC: he's a championship winning driver and most of the others are students.

It's the same with the Skip Barber videos. You can find plenty of students driving the car well under the limit and say OMG, why are the sim cars so oversteery. Then watch someone running near a lap record, or one of the instructors. It looks like a different car but it isn't.

I will not suggest, however, that Kunos has intentionally dumbed AC down. They've pushed back strenuously against that assertion and say their data supports what's in the sim, and I believe them. I'm sure the ISI guys would say the same, just as iRacing does. Everyone has data and everyone thinks what they're doing is more or less correct. The charges that devs are intentionally dumbing down their sims are IMO offensive if they've said otherwise, and Kunos has. So I give them credit for trying, and I believe that they believe it's right, but my real life experience of both racing and road cars at the limit tells me it isn't.

I wish it were, because there's a lot of other stuff to like. A lot. And I'll race any sim that lets me dance and rewards me for doing it well. I don't care who's name is on it.
Click to expand...

Yep, clearly no 'balancing' there. Just dumbed down easy to drive too much grip.


This must be dumbed down as well.

 
I think people are missing the point. Yes it shouldn't be "easy" to spin a race car when driven "correctly" but when driven "incorrectly" you should be punished. And for those saying their road cars are hard to spin... Let me take you for a ride, I will show you how it's done and no I will not use the ebrake.
 
Noel Hibbard said:
I think people are missing the point. Yes it shouldn't be "easy" to spin a race car when driven "correctly" but when driven "incorrectly" you should be punished. And for those saying their road cars are hard to spin... Let me take you for a ride, I will show you how it's done and no I will not use the ebrake.
Click to expand...

Its very hard to spin in the dry, unless you have a lot of hp.
 
Noel Hibbard said:
No it isn't. Trust me.
Click to expand...

I don't trust you because I drive. If it was easy then people on the roads would be crashing all the time just going to the shops because most of them can't drive. Street cars especially will just understeer if you over drive them.
 
F60 said:
I don't trust you because I drive. If it was easy then people on the roads would be crashing all the time just going to the shops. Street cars especially will just understeer if you over drive them.
Click to expand...

I am not talking about "normal" or "correct" driving. I am talking about driving in such a way to intentionally spin the car. The way many people are driving in AC in an attempt to spin but in AC it just doesn't do what it would do in real life.
 
But actually people do crash all the time going to the shops. Hahahaha.
 
Noel Hibbard said:
I am not talking about "normal" or "correct" driving. I am talking about driving in such a way to intentionally spin the car. The way many people are driving in AC in an attempt to spin but in AC it just doesn't do what it would do in real life.
Click to expand...

You are talking about the arbarth? I agree but other cars you can lose control quite easily like the E92 and F458. It depends on the car, but I agree the arbarth seems too easy.
 
Timpie Claessens said:
But I agree that the Lotus seems the oddest car of all, it's also VERY difficult to maintain a proper slide (as you can see how aleksi exits parabolica) in that while that should be one of the easiest cars to do that with seeing how theyre supposed to run of old bias ply tires
Click to expand...

Agreed, Lotus 49 feels really odd, like there is something wrong with the physics. On the other hand, with KTM X-BOW you CAN control the understeer/oversteer ratio nicely, just with the throttle. I think it's the most enjoyable car at the moment.
 
An old pal nipped round to try out AC,

He couldn't get the hang of it, kept crashing, spinning out

At one point I'm sure he even started to fall asleep whilst sitting in my rig,

Guess it's not for everyone, he became irritated when I took this pic as he was getting into his car

20d9b03ba3d7a810da4bfdfad1fdd24f.jpg
 
Noel Hibbard said:
I think people are missing the point. Yes it shouldn't be "easy" to spin a race car when driven "correctly" but when driven "incorrectly" you should be punished. And for those saying their road cars are hard to spin... Let me take you for a ride, I will show you how it's done and no I will not use the ebrake.
Click to expand...

See that's exactly what i meant. Let's take this part
Noel Hibbard said:
when driven "incorrectly" you should be punished
Click to expand...
, this is just a misconception idea that GAME simulation imposed from rFactor 1 to above. That's not reality unless you are on a wet track (because it is easier to go above the limit even if you feel where it is) or when you have a lot of hp and you are completely dumb to go from 0 to 100 % on the throttle.
Please do yourself a favor, search for a track where you can driver sportive fancy cars and not fancy ones and do some laps. You will see that even when you have a ferrari with no TC you will still have a lot of room to play with and you can feel where the limit is, and unless you do something very weird you can recover from most situation (surely you will lose time, but it does not mean 360 spin).
Unfortunately we are in the era where simulation = hardcore difficulty, if it is easy than it is not real, and this is for all categories out there.

If you ask me if i believe that AC physics is perfect, i would answer NO WAY. If you ask me, if i believe that it base starts is good i would answer definitely yes, specially if you consider that others games like Iracing or rF2 are not at a point too far. I believe that they are close enough to be reached and overtaken. Just time will tell f kunos will be capable to do that.

I have iRacing, rFactor1, rFactor2 and now AC beta and i would say that if i have to pick right now which one give me more confidence in term of long term i would say AC.
 
FYI, I have track experience with a variety of cars and tires. If you out right try to upset the car it will and yes it is recoverable but it isn't automatic and it will go all the way around (180) from time to time. Not sure who has the misconception.
 
Thanks for all your feedback and opinions on AC guys. I'm not a really good driver, I'm making 1'32'xxx at Brianza using BT20 and I can see others guys going down to 1'29,xxx which seems Aliens for me ;) So I will not be able to judge AC like you did here and I appreciate some of the specialists posts I read. Due to respect I have for the small Kunos team I just bought the AC open beta and will see if it will bring some fun for me. Perhaps a "casual" driver like me (removing always all driving helps so I noted the CTRL-A and CTRL-T tips) will appreciate how vehicles handle ;) Will see! :) Anyway, supporting such team with great expectations feel important for me, like I support ISI for years and SMS . Will see where all those people goes! :)
 
Matt Sentell said:
Is that Elomaa? I didn't think that was his Youtube alias. He's probably reading this thread, and if so he'd probably be the first to admit it's messed up, because he can dance. :)
Click to expand...

Yeah that's me. Nothing special going on in the video, just did couple of laps because I had to beat Cornett's time. :p

I spent little more time a few days ago there and got 27.0. Here's a replay if you want to do further analysis (11500 indicates the start frame of the lap)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/992171/AE_L49_Monza_127022_Frame11500.7z

And setup:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/992171/AE_L49_Monza_127072.ini
 
THAT happens when you push a road car in RL like you do in AC (or even less):

Minimum breaking the axle/suspension.
Clearer now?
 
F60 said:
Have you considered the idea that in real life you can actually bang curbs and run over grass without instantly going into a spin because those surfaces still have a lot of grip, and a real car is very stable and hard to spin??
Click to expand...
Grip is not an issue here. Curbs are not flat, which unsettles the car.

F60 said:
Its very hard to spin in the dry, unless you have a lot of hp.
Click to expand...
It's not that hard. All you need is a lift-induced oversteer.

I once saw a girl, learning to drive, spin a car during her lessons. As she was learning to drive, she couldn't be going faster than 50 km/h. It was a dry, sunny day, straight road, and a front-drive Fiat Punto.

I can imagine people bashing a simulator which would do that ;)
 
Last edited:
K Szczech said:
Grip is not an issue here. Curbs are not flat, which unsettles the car.
Click to expand...

The car was unsettled. You think once a car is unsettled it automatically loses all stability and spins?

They seemed ok despite racing in a typhoon.



K Szczech said:
I once saw a girl, learning to drive, spin a car during her lessons. As she was learning to drive, she couldn't be going faster than 50 km/h. It was a dry, sunny day, straight road, and a front-drive Fiat Punto.
I guess she did something sudden and fell victim to weight transfer :)

I can imagine people bashing a simulator which would do that ;)
Click to expand...

Impossible., If that was true there would be people spinning everywhere all the time.
 
There are none so blind as those who don't want to see...



video by David Domínguez.

Regards.

PD: ahora vas y lo tuiteas
 
3:08 in that video with the Lotus.... wait, I thought recovering from a slide was as easy as pie... surely people only have problems with over correcting in rF2 right.... never in real life.
 
Panigale said:
Nothing bad about AC but they make going fast too easy, very similar to the tech demo. Ego trip for many and hence the instant love story. Sorry fellow sim couch potatos but going fast isn't easy, takes focus and practice. No different from any other sport. I think it was even said by Tim that rF2 isn't as punishing as RL and I believe it.
You don't see spins in F1 often just like you don't see tennis balls going into the stands at Wimbledon often. This is the top of the talent pool, go to your local track day and you see plenty spins. I use the same racquet as Andy Roddick but for some reason I hit a hell of a lot more errors.
Don't take my word for it btw, sign up for a day at your local track and get educated. The 458 vid is sloppy and reminds me of the preview. Some brilliance in the experience however bland overall because there is no edge to fear.
Click to expand...

That's the why I made sure to pick 20 among the very best simracers. I'm not talking about sunday drivers making *&*& in a track-day.

Several simracers have more experience in their "sport" (if I can call like this way) than any professional whatever sport you choose, since they don't need burn fuel to practice or destroy their muscles. And, still, you'll see more incidents than any real life, because the feedback of a real race car is much more complete.
 
Out of interest how many hours have people posting here clocked up on AC ??
(Not the tech preview, so this will be since last Friday at the most)

-check on your profile on steam
 
I like how AC and pcars threads brought life to this forum :)

before it was boring conversation on graphical things and now we are fortunately back to physical stuff (which I can understand much better and are after all more important aspect of a sim imo... though I appreciate good graphics also but not as much as good physics and ffb.)
 
Not all curbs are created equal. Some drop from the racing surface, some are flat, some have grasscrete behind them, some are intended to be driven on, some are intended to be a death trap. It all depends on the curb. If a curb knocks the wheels into the air it is going to cause a loss of grip.
 
Noel Hibbard said:
Not all curbs are created equal. Some drop from the racing surface, some are flat, some have grasscrete behind them, some are intended to be driven on, some are intended to be a death trap. It all depends on the curb. If a curb knocks the wheels into the air it is going to cause a loss of grip.
Click to expand...

yes it will cause a loss of grip but that does not equate to spinning. The car can slide and drift as it does in the videos.
 
Noel Hibbard said:
FYI, I have track experience with a variety of cars and tires. If you out right try to upset the car it will and yes it is recoverable but it isn't automatic and it will go all the way around (180) from time to time. Not sure who has the misconception.
Click to expand...

Good ole forums, not sure you'll be able to convince the naysayers Noel. Every track I've been to has that turn or kink where you don't dare lift (in the dry) or your coming out spinning backwards.
The kink at CMP is an extreme example of this, the 4th gear left at VIR (North Course) before the Oak Tree (may it rest in peace) is another example although less severe.
Those who do track days are familiar with the end of day ride along. I had the pleasure of being a passenger with hot shoe Andrew Davis in a Cayman S a few years ago. He was probably at 9/10ths and I couldn't believe that was the same car I drove. I'm quick (D/E and solo crowd) but these guys who make their living doing this would embarrass everyone on this forum (that includes me) in a heartbeat.
Regardless, we'll always have folks who claim they are at the limit and can lift and nothing happens. Well, if nothing happens they are far from having the car properly loaded up which also means they are very far from being quick or being near any limit (of that vehicle) on the track.
It is work, we can all get better and faster with practice but as Matt eloquently said, you can't dance with the car in AC. And you certainly can't be that sloppy with inputs and get away with it like the 458 vid. I do hope they improve this at the beta matures.
 
Now I've tried Assetto Corsa for the first time. My first impression is not good at all but I need to find out if there are more settings before i judge it too hard.

I want to make sure I have the best settings for my G27. Right now the FFB is only a strong constant spring effect with absolutely no variations at all. All I can feel is when it tells me it's time to countersteer when I loose the rear (not very easy to do anyway) and when the car is standing still there is no restistance at all in the wheel. So... I've kept my Logitech Profiler settings that I use for rf2 as well: spring and damping effects to 0%. In-game, I wonder if there are any settings I should touch? I use default right now: Gain: 100%, Filter: 0%, Damping: 0%. I also have some "Steering Settings" on the right side, with "Gamma" and "Filter" settings? I don't expect it to be at the same level as rf2, because I've already read some comments about it... But it must be better than what I can feel now? :(

Graphics wise it reminds me a bit of iRacing. Maybe it's the trees, tracks overall, cockpits. I'm not that impressed to be honest. It's a nice lighting (especially in cockpits) and nice models, not much more. The antialiasing is terrible.
It seems like they have spent more time with the graphics and the car physics comes second, opposite to rf2.

Engine sounds are boring and dull. Especially the Lotus 49, compared to iRacing.

Finally, I can barely find any control options at all? Only a few... But the CTRL+A and CTR+T to turn off traction control and ABS, I found out thanks to this thread.
No settings for FOV? HUD?

My first impression is that this game is arcadish... Everything from how the cars drives to UI, HUD, driving views (chasing views are always arcade but this really reminds me of some console game), car setup screen, time attack mode (checkpoints? seriously?).
It looks like they try to attract both arcade gamers and (semi)sim gamers.
 
wow - 9 page thread :) I haven't had time to read / reply to this as I've been having to much fun fitting AC in between my iRacing iGPS practice sessions :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top